Episode 358 – Tim Miller – Founder of Blur Studio


Episode 358 – Tim Miller – Founder of Blur Studio

Tim Miller is a Film Director, Animator, Creative Director and VFX Artist. He was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Animated Short Film for the work on his short film Gopher Broke. He made his directing debut with Deadpool. He is also known for creating opening sequences for The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and Thor: The Dark World.

In 1995, Tim co-founded Blur Studio with David Stinnett and Cat Chapman. Blur is where animators and artists can collaborate and be in control of their creative destinities. Since then, the Studio has evolved into an award-winning production company with work spanning the realms of game cinematics, commercials, feature films and more. Committed to their clients, artists and to the telling of great stories, Blur continues to grow not only as a high-end animation studio, but also as original content creators, having recently helmed Netflix’s first animated anthology Love Death + Robots.

In this Podcast, Allan McKay interviews Tim Miller, Film Director, Animator, Creative Director and Co-Founder of Blur Studio, about the history of launching Blur, its legacy; his ongoing collaboration with David Fincher, directing Deadpool and Terminator: Dark Fate – and creating Love Death + Robots.


Blur Studio: http://www.blur.com

Tim Miller on IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1783265/



[04:52] Tim Miller Introduces Himself 

[06:40] Starting Out in 3D

[16:44] im Talks About His Work Experience at Sony

[20:57] The Start of Blur Studio

[30:49] The Legacy of Blur

[36:19] Creative Collaboration with David Fincher

[43:31] Directing Terminator: Dark Fate

[50:17] Advice to Young Filmmakers

[55:01] Mentoring Up-and-Coming Directors 

[56:33] The Experience of Deadpool

[1:05:30] Blur Studio as Content Creator of Love Death + Robots



Hi, everyone! 

This is Allan McKay. Welcome to Episode 358! I’m sitting down with Tim Miller, Film Director, Animator, Creative Director and Co-Founder of Blur Studio about the history of launching Blur, his collaboration with David Fincher, directing Deadpool, Love Death + Robots, and so much more!

I’ve known Tim for decades now. I applied to work at Blur when I was 19 years old. He replied directly to see if I wanted to move to LA. This was a really exciting Episode to do! Some of the stuff we talk about is: Tim’s starting out in 3D, working at Sony Imageworks, launching Blur, his experience with directing, his advice to young filmmakers. 

Let’s dive in! 



[01:16]  Have you ever sent in your reel and wondered why you didn’t get the callback or what the reason was you didn’t get the job? Over the past 20 years of working for studios like ILM, Blur Studio, Ubisoft, I’ve built hundreds of teams and hired hundreds of artists — and reviewed thousands of reels! That’s why I decided to write The Ultimate Demo Reel Guide from the perspective of someone who actually does the hiring. You can get this book for free right now at www.allanmckay.com/myreel!

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[04:52] Allan: Tim, thank you so much for coming on the Podcast! Do you want to quickly introduce yourself?

Tim: My name is Tim Miller. I’m the Owner of Blur Studio. And I’ve directed some shit.

[05:01] Allan: Beautiful start!

Tim: I’ve very old, so I’ve directed quite a bit.

[05:09] Allan: You have done quite a lot. Did you always want to be a creative growing up? Or was it something you fell into later on?

Tim: I always wanted to be an artist, but I also wanted to draw. The perfect career would’ve been comic books. When I got out of college, I had a dual major in editorial illustration and animation but this was in the late 80s. Computers weren’t around. Everything was traditional illustration and traditional animation which I loved! I tried to draw comics. I knew I wasn’t good enough to draw them in terms of the command of the anatomy of a good comic book. But I’ve tried to get a job at Marvel in New York. Couldn’t do it! Then my money ran out and I had to move back home.

[06:40] Allan: How did you first get into 3D? I’ve known and looked up to you.

Tim: You didn’t look up to me when you first worked here. By the way, podcaster viewers! It’s late here so I’m having a beer.

[06:50] Allan: It’s fine to call me out of my shit. 

Tim: Allan definitely understands having a beer.

[07:04] Allan: I swear there was a moment where it was frowned upon that I’d pull people out of the studio to go get drunk. To get back on track, I’m familiar with the origins of Blur. It was a pivotal time! I remember your story from Sony. In the late 80s, 3D wasn’t a thing. How did you get your first big break?

Tim: My wife Jennifer had a friend that worked at a place in Baltimore that made medical films. They had a big business with that. They had this computer called Governor 20K which had 10 megabit disks the size of a pizza box; 256 paint systems. And I had an illustration portfolio. They asked me if I could learn to work on this thing called a computer. I said, “Fuck yeah!” I started using it but I immediately thought, “I’m in the future! This is the greatest art tool ever invented!” And it was amazing. The following year, we got a 60 million paint system that had a very primitive command line. It was called Graphics Factory. I used that to make the first film I ever directed which was So You Have an STD. I’m not making that up! I filmed these models, and I’d do push ins, and I wrote some code. I’d take every frame and scan it into the computer. It was super pretentious. There was only one computer so I got to work at night, and I was by myself in this big building. I’d be there until 6:00 a.m., in a town I didn’t know anyone. After about 6 months of that, I started to feel really weird. I never talked to anyone and it wasn’t healthy. It’s hard for me to describe how excited I was when I made an apple in 3D. I took an hour to render that mother fucker but it had specular highlighter and I could spin it. It was shiny. I was looking at some characters on a piece we’re doing [right now] and the reflections are kind of painted in. I so distinctly remember my joy at being able to do my reflection maps in 3D Studio. It was revelatory! It was the greatest thing ever! You’re not old enough to remember that!

[11:10] Allan: I do! I started with 3DS. I was thinking about my first job at a studio and I was 18 years old. It was a magical time!

Tim: It might be just as magical for people today but it was an unknown territory. I was doing mostly 2D stuff on a Paintbox machine. Then I got a job in DC at a post- house. There were these guys with SGI machines which were super expensive. We were friends and I’d ask him to make some things. But it was a pain in the ass, so I started looking for a program to do 3D stuff in. 3DS Studio Max was the greatest revelation. I was running that on a 386 Dx. But the joy of it! It’s indescribable. And after a few years, they’d be at SIGGRAPH. Right now, it feels more like a job fair. But back in the day, it was where they announced new software. Electronic theatre was like a fucking temple! You gotta see this great work everyone was doing. Back then, there was nothing like that!

[13:52] Allan: I was talking to Louis Castle (www.allanmckay.com/249) and we talked about Command and Conquer and Dune, and all the stuff they were doing at Westwood Studio. 

Tim: I think we did some Dune stuff, a cinematic. Our supervisor was Aaron Powell who was from Westwood. On that Dune cinematic, we used the first ever mocap (that we’ve ever used). There’ve been a lot of cinematics since but that was at Blur, after I’d gone to work for Imageworks, which was only 7 people when it started. 

[15:00] Allan: I’m friends with the producers who were at Activision. It was so weird how small the industry was.

Tim: You had access to all those people: Dave Wilson has a thing from when he was in South Africa and wrote to Tim Sweeney who answered his email. I felt like I was giving the admiral a tour of my shrimp boat. He had this little smile on his face. I said, “What are you smiling at?” He said, “I remember when it was like this.” We had only 50 people versus whoever Pixar was at the time. I kind of like every stage of growth at Blur. It was cool when there were 3 of us. It was cool when there were 12 of us. It was cool when there were 60 of us. It’s cool now even though I sometimes don’t know everyone’s name. 

[16:44] Allan: To touch on Sony, what was it like to work there?

Tim: I had a buddy that worked who was the VFX Supervisor. We met at a SIGGRAPH chapter. He went to work at Sony and I was visiting him. Back then, LA was the center of the computer graphics world. I did that and I happened to be showing him something I was working on at home. I was showing him something on BetaKit. Tim McGovern walked through and said, “What’s that on the monitor up there?” I said it was something I was doing for fun. He said, “Are you an animator? The animation isn’t bad.” And I said, “No, I’m a compositor. Kind of.” He said they were looking for an animator. So I went to Sony and worked on this film called Hideaway with Jeff Goldblum. I was an animator. They were doing Johnny Mnemonic in the PC Department. And I am a huge William Gibson fan! They were using 3DS Studio over there. I’d gone into the SGI Department thinking I’d be working with the best tools, and I was so fucking frustrated. My computer and hardware on my desk cost about $1,000. I could do 75% of it easier on my PC. So I was like, “Fuck this!” I thought I was elevating myself to this temple of geniuses. And I saw the writing on the wall that PC’s were going to take over everything. I got to meet William Gibson. Later, I got to develop. Ultimately, I lost it when Fox went to Disney.

[19:35] Allan: That’s so cool! I love the full circle too. What were you comping on back then?

Tim: I was using this French system called Gertris Image. Its claim to fame was that it had multiple layers that you could animate in realtime, all within their key channel. And you could have multiple video sources, and it would all do it in realtime, with no rendering. I had a pretty steady clientele in the commercial world. People would book your room for a day for, like, $600 a day. It was a little cheaper than [Flame]. Inferno wasn’t really around. When I left Sony, I had a choice of being a Flame Operator or I could start my own business. And the idea of going back and working on commercials was enough for me. So I decided to start my own company. 

[20:57] Allan: From memory, I think you started Blur, you took a $20K loan from your father-in-law. Is that right?

Tim: Excellent memory! You got the amount right, but it was my grandfather-in-law. Good job! And we bought 3 computers. I remember when I got my tour of Sony. They showed me this SGI Prec System and they were like, “You won’t believe this! It’s got 8 gigabytes of ram!” “Wow! You’re blowing my mind!” I sound like an old man.

[21:52] Allan: For me, this is fun! It’s nostalgic. What was it like starting Blur? What was your mentality going into it? You revolutionized a lot of things.

Tim: There was so much cool shit being done. Before I went to Sony, I worked at a post- house called Action Video. I go into the machine room and see these frames coming in, one by one. I worked on Babylon 5 roto-ing laser shots, back in the day. I knew I wanted to do that stuff. When I was at Sony, I didn’t have a desire to be an entrepreneur. I just wanted to do interesting work. I tried to get Sony to do more interesting work in the PC Department but it just wasn’t in the cards. I talked to a few other people in the department who were fellow nerds. Dave Thompson, Cat Chapman who was the producer for the Department. I said, “Why don’t we start our own company? We’ll get some PC’s and do our own work.” And that’s what we did. It was really hard. 

[24:12] Allan: What were some of the first projects you worked on [at Blur]?

Tim: The first project we did was a movie called The Net. Right at the beginning, the Columbia logo comes up and a little mouse comes and clicks on it. That’s the only thing we did and we got $11K for it. Then we’d do whatever, and it was all cool. We did some VFX for The Outer Limits. There was this dolly tracking shot going around a girl healing from burns in her bed. They shot the make-up version and the clean version. But this isn’t motion control. It’s on a dolly, with bumps in it. And I’m trying to track this with key framing in camera, in 3DS Max. I’m not ashamed to admit that at one point, I went outside and cried. I just couldn’t get it. It was days of trying to do it. It was the worst!

[25:56] Allan: I am totally nerding out about this. Your mentioning this reminds me of Deep Rising. I remember reaching out to Tim Montijo.

Tim: To not take anything away from Tim, he was ultimately defeated by that shot and Denis took over. I watched him with tenacity trying to track that shot. There were no tracking markers in that shot. And David just tracked it. He did it all by hand. When it was off, he used Elastic Reality to warp it on a frame level. It’s fucking amazing! I have every little program you could buy. If it did one little thing, I bought it. That’s how David, the other Co-Founder, and I became friends. Everyday, I’d come in with a new plugin and he’d tell me about his. 

[27:59] Allan: It was a magical time back then. I’m at a point in my life where I want to make some photoreal shots for other artists.

Tim: I’ve got such itchy fingers watching Unreal stuff. It’s hard to not want to get in there. But I can’t!

[29:09] Allan: I talked to Aaron Sims recently and it surprises me he’s still on the box. What’s that like for you?

Tim: If it’s not Photoshop paintovers — which I can still do – it’s pretty much not happening anymore. We did this thing for David Fincher, and I was trying to explain how it was so simple and I could build it in 3D. Oh, my God! It was pathetic and I was genuinely sad how pathetic I was. The skills are completely gone. If I’m doing that, I’m not doing what I’m supposed to be doing. It’s hard to let go. It should be! We aren’t different people. I still get a lot of joy out of watching what everyone else is doing. I’m proud of the work that’s coming out of the studio!

[30:49] Allan: Yeah! Obviously, looking at Blur, you’ve curated and nurtured so much talent that has come through the Studio. It’s fascinating! Blur is like a gym, you go there to get buff. I like a creative place like that. 

Tim: I’m very proud of the people that have come through here. There are some people who’ve been bitter about the experience. The fast majority that leave say that this has been one of the nicest places they’ve worked at. I just got an email from a compositor who said, “I’ve worked at a lot of studios – and this is the best one!” It came out of nowhere. We just brought back one of our Animation Supervisors. We’re working with Jeremy Cook again. There are people who come back into our lives. I’m pretty proud of that family feeling that we’ve had over the years. And sometimes, people will say it was the hardest place to work at. I think there is that sweet spot. If there is not enough push behind, you don’t make interesting solutions. You gotta find what the difference is between finding the impossible versus finding the merely difficult. It’s not for everybody. Sometimes people want that easy job. I feel good about it because it’s not easy. It’s not easy because we’re trying to make more money. It’s not easy because we’re trying to push the creative bar. 

[34:16] Allan: A place that’s going to push you from good to great – is the best! Some people just want to push the button, but what happens when there is someone who does it for cheaper. 

Tim: People want to be challenged. Occasionally people will leave. If you have 45 days to make a character and at another place you get 120, what does that mean? When you look at a year, you’ve created one third of the characters. You don’t have as much growth. 

[36:19] Allan: You have a relationship with David Fincher. When did you start nerding out?

Tim: There is a friend of mine who was at XBox. I love that thing! Seamus Blackley hired us and they needed something cool to play behind Bill Gates as he did a presentation. He said, “I heard you were the Navy SEALs of VFX. What can you do?” Sheamus left for CAA and was in charge of their games division. I think Fincher approached them about doing a game about a 12.1 earthquake hitting Los Angeles. He pitched that idea and CAA asked for a proof of concept. He came down and he liked the vibe of the Studio, and the artist centric way we ran it. You’re not meeting people in suits. We just hit it off. He said, “What do you want to do?” And I told him there was a movie at Fox that I wanted to do and some other stuff. He tried to help me but Fox didn’t want that. They didn’t want to have David Fincher work on it. He said, “Fuck it! What else do you want to do?” I had 11 different projects and one of them was Heavy Metal. And he loved that! So we started trying to do that. We pitched Heavy Metal. James Cameron was going to do one. Zack Snyder was going to do one. Fincher was going to do it.

[40:42] Allan: No one wants to do an R-rated series, of course! Now it’s all the rage.

Tim: It would’ve been cool. Some of the concepts were in Love Death + Robots

[41:07] Allan: I want to dive into that. For anyone not aware of Kevin Eastman, his name has been embedded in my brain since Ninja Turtles.

Tim: He’s one of my favorite guys! It would’ve been harder to make Heavy Metal. I did the greatest presentation on that show. There are stacks from it! There were 28 different stories. Kevin is this great dude! It would’ve meant a lot to get it done. But we couldn’t even with all those people attached. There were 5 jokes that Fox wanted me to cut out of Deadpool when we pitched it because they didn’t work or were over the line. And every one of those jokes were in the trailer. It is a nice bit of validation! I thought they would work – and they did. My Terminator movie. I thought it was good. 

[43:31] Allan: I think it’s also about timing. When I first heard you were going to do Terminator, I said you’d be the only person to bring it back from the dead. Going back to XBox, there is that attachment to make strong female characters – and you have a different approach to doing things.

Tim: All things considered, it’s my favorite picture. [Shows a photo.] They were doing publicity photos and the ladies grabbed me. We had such a great time working on it! I tried my best, but who knows why shit doesn’t work! I went to see it in the theater. This couple behind us said, “I kind of liked that movie, but it’s getting bashed online. I don’t know why.” I turned around and asked to give them a hug. We had such bad luck too with the premiere. It got shut down. We screened at IMAX instead. It was the only time Linda saw the movie. I was sad that it didn’t work out.

[46:38] Allan: What was it like to start the discussion on Terminator. I imagine that was a fucking amazing experience to go through! I can only assume it’s a dream come true.

Tim: Terminator 2 is in my top 5. It’s pretty unbelievable! I’m the luckiest nerd on the planet. Look at what I’ve gotten to do. The Studio is such a satisfying thing to do. But on top of that! Deadpool was like a lightning strike during a lottery win, during an orgasm with a supermodel – all within the same time. You don’t get any luckier than that! Then Love Death + Robots, then Terminator. Yeah, okay Terminator only made $270 million. But fuck! Just to get the chance to fail is pretty lucky for a nerd. When I was finishing Deadpool, David Ellison from Skydance came over to visit with a writer friend of mine. He wanted to talk about projects. I showed him a rough cut of Deadpool and he really liked it. We started talking about movies. Terminator came up and I said I loved it. He always wanted to take another shot at it. It’s weird – and I’m lucky to have had this experience – I was 50 when I directed Deadpool. I’d been trying to direct movies for quite a long time. Almost always, I wanted to do animation. Then you get lucky at 50. When someone says, “How would you like to do a Terminator film?” – it’s a surreal experience. A year ago, I was begging. How do I have to prostitute myself to get a movie, and here is someone offering me to do a Terminator movie; and offering it in a way that’s making me feel like they aren’t doing me a favor. It’s very fortunate. [50:17] If I could say anything to young filmmakers out there: Don’t pretend you know everything. Just ask. There are so many people who have experience in the movie business and they’d be happy to share. Don’t act like a fucking asshole who knows everything. They all know you don’t. And you don’t get the benefit of their help. Have you seen Sonic 2? It’s a huge movie! Jeff did a great job and the crew loves him. For me, I hired Jeff out of college. So it’s pretty amazing! 

[52:48] Allan: I worked on Gopher Broke. I remember going to a theater to screen it.

Tim: I love that short! It still holds up. We were so down to the wire when we had to do that screening for Rockfish (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ONdmbxUw8Q) that the dog was still a red box. We hadn’t rendered it yet. That was the year we did two shorts. Hugo won the last Blur shorts contest, and I wouldn’t let him direct it. Hugo was so relentless. I’ve never come this close to hitting an employee. He’s so fucking funny! We had quite a party atmosphere back then and Hugo would always lead.

[55:01] Allan: You’ve birthed many directors which is fascinating.

Tim: I’d like to say that I did that. But I’d rather say that I have a good eye for talent. And I try to help along the way. Before Sonic, we were going to get a movie for Jeff no matter what, be it The Goon. And if there is anyone from [the Kickstarter campaign] listening, we’re still trying to make the movie. Allan will tell you: It’s really hard to make movies in Hollywood, no matter who you are. I don’t blame people for being angry that we hadn’t made the movie. It’s an R-rated movie. We thought we had a pretty good chance at Fox, but then Disney bought Fox and we’re in limbo again.

[56:33] Allan: I’d like to talk about Deadpool. What was that experience like?

Tim: It was pretty exciting and torturous too. Drew is the showrunner for WeWork. But he was an executive at Fox at the time. He came down trying to get me to help with another Fox project. He mentioned this small film called Deadpool. I read the script and thought it was amazing. I had to meet Ryan and meet with the studio. I think the only reason I got a shot is because no one gave a shit at that point. They didn’t think it was ever going to happen. We did the proof of concept, and we did a lot of work on the script. Then they passed. For the next five years, I would write an email a month. They would always say, “We respect your passion, Tim, but it’s not going to happen right now.” It was a couple of things that happened that made it possible. One was the leak which I won’t talk about. I didn’t do it but I know who did – and I’m very grateful for doing it. That broke the internet. Emma Watts came to the notion that R-rated animated movies could be a thing; and that Fox owned the landscape. Then Simon Kinberg came on board and he’s the Marvel gatekeeper. He was great! Through all that time, the writers thought Deadpool was the best script they’ve ever made. They got Simon involved and he said he’d help. Then I got a call from Emma Watts and she told me to come over to the studio “to date the movie”. I didn’t know what that meant. She said, “It means we’re making your fucking movie!” I said, “I’ll be right over!” When the leak happened, I just got back from Comicon. I was horrified. I thought Fox was going to put me in jail. And they didn’t. And here we are!

[1:01:46] Allan: I still remember you said that Fox security said, “Shit hit the fan – but a really cool test, by the way!”

Tim: The funny thing was that it was looking to come off someone’s monitor. And then a really nice high res version came out and Fox security said, “Mr. Miller, do you know anything about it?” I said no. But they said it was coming from my server. What I found out was that a bunch of people had a link to it and it got distributed. Then it was out there in all of its HD glory. I was always really proud of that test!

[1:02:50] Allan: Knowing this is a huge endeavor, what was it like to have wrapped it, knowing you’d accomplished your first feature? 

Tim: I’m not really good at celebrating those moments. It was an emotional moment with the crew and it felt great. But I had nothing to compare it to. I had no idea if I’d fucked it up. There were a lot of warm emotional feelings. There was never a day that I walked off a set and thought I did a great job. I did feel like I had a great experience with the crew. I always ask, what should I do better? I remember Emma Watts called 40 days into the shoot. And I thought they’d be all over my ass. When she called to check in, and I asked, “Is there anything I should be doing better?” And she said, “The dailies look great and there is no drama, and everyone seems happy. So keep doing what you’re doing.” I was so lucky to get that chance. Everyone was terrific. 

[1:05:30] Allan: To talk about Love Death + Robots, that’s another huge accomplishment. I love the fact you managed to pull together different creative sources. How did you get involved in that project?

Tim: I don’t feel like I’m old enough to have a career retrospective. But out of all those accomplishments, I’m probably most proud of Love Death + Robots. Because animation is my roots and I love short stories, Love Death + Robots is Blur. It was our idea. After Deadpool, Fincher said, “Let’s try and make Heavy Metal again.” But eventually, we couldn’t for various reasons. We went to Netflix and I showed the Blur reel on an iPad and said, “We’re going to do 180 minutes like this.” That was a weird meeting. Netflix had no data. No one was doing an anthology, let alone an adult anthology. They were willing to take a risk and off we went! And I couldn’t be more proud. It was always conceived as this artist collective. And it turned out to be mostly like that. I thought we’d do more original animation ideas. But most of them turned out to be short stories. There are so many great short story ideas! Most of them beat an idea that an animator can have. With the exception of Alberto Mielgo who won an Oscar this year [for his short The Windshield Wiper]. His short The Witness is probably one of the most mind-blowing pieces of animations, and his process is amazing. And Vitaliy Shushko did Blindspot. I love his style! But the rest were stories I’ve found. I hope we get another season.

[1:08:38] Allan: I love those short stories! It’s a chance to express those stories.

Tim: And there are all these different styles. Normally, there are studios that are competitors: Axis, Platige and even Blow. They have that same attitude. Everyone is trying to do their best work. And it’s a friendly competition. There is nothing better than sitting here and watching new shit roll in that’s fucking mindblowingly cool. And people are happy to be working! Hopefully, we inspire some stuff.

[1:10:42] Allan: My next question is: What’s next for you? I know you mentioned you were on set.

Tim: I can’t say yet but I certainly hope to direct another movie soon. I certainly hope to do some short animation soon. We haven’t given up on The Goon. The Studio is busy. We’re doing lots of game cinematics and the crew loves that. We’re packed with work. It’s an interesting time with artists and the great resignation of it all. But it’ll pass. I want the artists to come back! I’m sitting in my Studio and no one else is here. It used to be that a few more people would be here, and I want for that to happen. I’ll make me sad if the future is people working alone. 

[1:12:05] Allan: It’s so critical to be around people.

Tim: At the same time, I don’t know if we’ll ever make people come back. It depends on what they do. If someone has to sit in traffic for 1.5 hour each way, that’s terrible. I don’t think it’s a good idea. Maybe we could have a hybrid idea. 

[1:12:48] Allan: This has been awesome! I’m grateful for your time. You’ve been a massive inspiration. I sent my reel to you and Blizzard when I was 18 years old. You actually reached out to me.

Tim: I almost always put “YOU” in the subject line. If you have that email.

[1:13:37] Allan: It was more like, “You make cool shit. Do you want to come work at Blur?” It was one of those things where I stayed in touch and it inspired me to have that communication. Even from the sidelines, what Blur and you have accomplished, it’s been really inspiring!

Tim: I appreciate that! And you’ve been part of that story. You’ve blown some stuff here. You weren’t ready for marriage back then.

[1:14:46] Allan: It’s been great to catch up. I can’t remember half the projects I’ve ever worked on – but I remember all the ones at Blur.

Tim: It’s people! People come in and they like the vibe of the place. I can’t really define that. I have to believe there is a general aura of people doing good work with people that they like and being happy about that. One guy just came back after 8 years and said, “It smells the same. It’s a different building but it smells like home.” Anyway, thanks for the time, Allan! 

[1:15:40] Allan: Again, thank you so much! This has been great! 

Tim: I’m glad you’ve found something that you love. And it’s great that you are passing it on to other people. Well done, sir!


Okay, what did you think? I hope you got a lot from this Episode. I want to thank Tim for coming on the Podcast. I’d love to have him back.

Please take a moment to share this Episode with others.

I’ll be back next week. Until then –

Rock on!


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