Episode 344 — Women in Leadership Round Table

 

Episode 344 — Women in Leadership Round Table

JINKO GOTOH is an Animation Producer and Consultant whose credits include The Little Prince; the Academy Award nominated The Illusionist; the Academy Award winning Finding Nemo. Jinko also serves as Vice-President of Women in Animation dedicated to advancing women in the field of animation.

NELL LLOYD-MALCOLM is the Founding CEO of Xydrobe, a new luxury NFT platform. Previously, Nell has worked as a VFX Producer and Coordinator at Framestore, Double Negative, ILM, Sony, Untold Studios; on titles like Aladdin, Mowgli, Bohemian Rhapsody, Ready Player One, Star Wars, as well as The Crown on Netflix.

KAITLYN YANG is the CEO of Alpha Studios, the first Woman-owned visual effects company in the U.S. She is a VFX Artist turned Supervisor whose titles include The Shrink Next Door, The Good Doctor, Absentia, Modern Family, Robot Chicken, Gangster Squad, and many more. Kaitlyn is a list maker for Forbes 30 Under 30 in Hollywood & Entertainment — and a Founder of 1IN4, an intersectional coalition of disabled creatives currently working in Hollywood.

In this Podcast, Women Leaders in VFX discuss the statistics of representation, talk about the impact of #MeToo and Time’s Up movements, give advice and provide resources to women starting out in visual effects. 

 

Jinko Gotoh on IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1380146/

Jinko Gotoh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jinko-gotoh-168855

Nell Lloyd-Malcolm on IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm9113287/

Xydrobe on LinkedIn, IG and Twitter: @xydrobe

Kaitlyn Yand on IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3570652/

Kaitlyn Yang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaitlyny

Alpha Studios: https://www.alphastudios.com

1IN4 Coalition: ​​https://www.1in4coalition.org/about/

Women in Animation: https://womeninanimation.org/our-mission/

Gender Bias Without Borders (The Geena Davis Institute on Gender in Media):

https://seejane.org/wp-content/uploads/gender-bias-without-borders-full-report.pdf

 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[04:51] The Panelists Introduce Themselves

[06:40] Kaitlyn Yang Discusses Statistics of Representation

[10:59] Kaitlyn Discusses the Work of 1IN4 (www.1in4Coalition.org)

[16:22] Nell Lloyd-Malcolm Talks About Launching Xydrobe

[22:23] Jinko Gotoh Discusses Women in Animation (www.womeninanimation.org)

[25:35] Advice for Women Starting out in VFX

[36:46] The Importance of Mentors and How to Find Them

[49:30] The Impact and Future of #MeToo

[1:18:30] The Panelists Share Resources for Women in VFX

 

EPISODE 344 — WOMEN IN LEADERSHIP ROUND TABLE

Hi, everyone! 

This is Allan McKay. Welcome to Episode 344! 

In celebration of Women’s History Month, I’m speaking with a panel of Women Leaders in VFX: a VFX Producer and Vice-President of Women in Animation Jinko Gotoh, the Founding CEO of Xydrobe and VFX Producer Nell Lloyd-Malcolm and CEO of Alpha Studios Kaitlyn Yang who is also a Founder of 1IN4, an intersectional coalition of disabled creatives currently working in Hollywood. 

We talk about the statistics of representation of women in VFX, the impact of #MeToo and Times Up movements; they also give great advice and provide resources for women starting out in VFX and share a lot of amazing insights. We also talk about the importance of mentors and so much more!

Getting these amazing Women Leaders on the Podcast has been a long-term goal. It doesn’t matter who you are – you’ll find this Episode extremely valuable. I’m really excited for this one!

Please take a moment to share this Episode with others.

Let’s dive in! 

 

FIRST THINGS FIRST:

[01:35]  Have you ever sent in your reel and wondered why you didn’t get the callback or what the reason was you didn’t get the job? Over the past 20 years of working for studios like ILM, Blur Studio, Ubisoft, I’ve built hundreds of teams and hired hundreds of artists — and reviewed thousands of reels! That’s why I decided to write The Ultimate Demo Reel Guide from the perspective of someone who actually does the hiring. You can get this book for free right now at www.allanmckay.com/myreel!

[1:27:04] One of the biggest problems we face as artists is figuring out how much we’re worth. I’ve put together a website. Check it out: www.VFXRates.com! This is a chance for you to put in your level of experience, your discipline, your location — and it will give you an accurate idea what you and everyone else in your discipline should be charging. Check it out: www.VFXRates.com!

 

WOMEN IN LEADERSHIP

[04:51] Allan: Welcome and thank you so much for coming on the Podcast! Starting out, could each of you introduce yourselves?

Kaitlyn: Hi, everyone! My name is Kaitly Yang. I am a VFX Supervisor and CEO of Alpha Studios. I’ve been working in VFX for 15 years now. I’m glad we’re having this conversation. We can bring forth light of absolute necessity for having more diversity in our field.

Nell: Hello, I’m Nell [Lloyd-Malcolm]. I’m the CEO of Xydrobe. I’ve been previously working in film for the better part of 10 years, in the VFX industry. And now, I’ve gone on to set up Xydrobe where I’m leveraging all the amazing skills and talent from the VFX industry and applying them to fashion and luxury goods.

Jinko: Thank you for having me! I’m Jinko Gotoh. I’ve been producing animated features for over 25 years. I’ve also worked in live action and VFX as well. I also serve as Vice President for Women in Animation. We’re an advocacy group for 50/50 by 2025. I’m also very active with the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, promoting diversity. I also co-Chair for the DGA for the VFX and Animation Committee.

[06:37] Allan: I love that! Kaitlyn, you’re the CEO of Alpha Studios, the first Woman-owned visual effects company in the U.S. Owning that statistic alone, do you find that daunting at all?

Kaitlyn: To be honest, Allan, I didn’t think about any data when I entered the industry. It was really about learning about the craft and studying the films I enjoyed watching; and learning special and visual effects. For a good 5-6 years of my career, I didn’t think about statistics anyway. But I did realize that I was often the only woman in the room. One of the most drastic experiences happened when I was working at a major VFX vendor, and I was the only woman in a room of about 200 men. It wasn’t that number but the fact that my Supervisor didn’t know. There weren’t any one-on-one interactions. I did notice that it felt like a boys’ club. The only woman in the room, in any situation, the largest number has the leverage. That’s statistically been the case. I did remember waiting for the first official report on the VFX inclusion which was possible by my alma mater USC. And this came out in November 2021. I remember seeing there were 7 women of color as VFX Supervisors in the world. That number is more daunting! I had the other 6 women’s numbers in my phone. A lot of the award shows that have become the beacon of industry, among the winners, there are hardly any women; or even nominees. That was really obvious to me! I’m not represented but oftentimes, I’m still the only one quanting out this issue. With not having the power in number, it’s daunting to bring it up. And oftentimes, most of the men in the room won’t add to that conversation. 

I recently went to the Oscars bake-off, which is a beloved tradition. My first attendance was in 2008. When I went to this one recently, the representation of women has been more or less exactly the same. So I wonder if inclusion has been more of a lip service. It takes us more than 15 years to add one more woman to the roster! 

[10:59] Allan: I want to talk about more actionable things we can do. It’s a startling thing when the numbers are so low. I know you have a non-for-profit 1IN4. Can you share some information about that as well?

Kaitlyn: Absolutely! 1IN4 coalition launched last Oscar Sunday (2021), mainly to rally behind one of our Co-Founders Jim LeBrecht and his film Crip Camp which was also nominated. In so many ways, it made Oscars history. It was also the first time that the Oscars stage had a ramp which was so wild to think that it was the first time it was accessible! 1IN4 comes from the 2020 American Census where 1 in 4 adults identify as having a disability, whether it’s visible or not. (Mental health and autism are included in this count.) As I learn from other Co-Founders, I see the parallel in animation and VFX with artists who are autistic. For so long, there was a cultural stigma. It’s a lived experience and I don’t want our industry to be the least diverse. I want to say things that are already part of our lived experiences and find ways to normalize it. 

One of the ways I am passionate about is learning about how different people think. If you have someone who is diverse, they will be thinking differently than you. They will contribute ideas that aren’t on the peripheral of your mind. It’s rare for someone to have the space to be different! I often think of VFX as to capture the world as realistically as we can – and then to add the element of the fantastical. How many times have bridges in NYC or San Francisco blown up! How fun it is to push it to the limit of realism. And yet, we have little statistics behind [these effects]. If you see the making of, you don’t see it reflected in the world we’re working so hard to capture. What a missed opportunity for our work to be this diverse yet for the workforce to be the complete opposite of that! I encourage everyone to check out our website www.1IN4.org. One of the best ways to learn about diversity is to check out films and books. If you want to learn more about our 25% of population, it’s important for us as citizens of humanity. It’s our duty to learn why so much of our population has been marginalized and what kind of responsibility we have to make it better as we go on. And to pass it on to the next generation so that discrimation doesn’t become multi-generational.

[16:22] Allan: Thank you! Nell, what was your inspiration for starting xydrobe?

Nell: It was multifaceted. It came together in December 2019. I sat down with a couple of friends. I had this radical idea that came from my time in post-production facilities and understanding how talented these artists really are. That was a big thing for me to notice what existed outside the VFX industry. There was an uptake in NFT technology, enabling other marketplaces to create revenue. The germ of the idea was that I received this huge quality discrepancy that was existing anywhere else. When you’re in VFX and you’re working around these people, it seems really normal. But as soon as you step out of the VFX space and you see other people’s understanding of how this comes to be, there is a huge misunderstanding. People assume that most of the time it’s just a piece of software. [People think you just] press the button. It was about understanding of how we take a prescriptive business and luxury service (which VFX is because it takes highly skilled and talented people) – and applying that to a different area. It took months of iteration. 

We think about the bounds where we work at the studio and then we have our artists in the post-production facility. We had to decide if we wanted to keep that same model I’ve witnessed at a post-production facility. We harnessed the NFT technology to create as perfect as possible the twins of our luxury brands or actual IP. It’s about creating something that allows them to recycle their IP. It allows for all these brands to be reborn. But until that quality was achieved that I knew was possible, then these kinds of uber luxury brands wouldn’t take our product seriously. It was just about the work and what was possible. 

[20:54] Allan: I love this so much! I’ve had Beeple and a few people who’ve made a splash in the NFT space (www.allanmckay.com/285). I think it’s a game changer!

Nell: One of the big things we are trying to tackle right now that is related to our conversation is that so much of the NFT technology / crypto based community seems like a boys’ club. The information surrounding the space felt gate kept. We are creating a product for a consumer base that is pretty fair in terms of gender. It’s about creating a product that’s accessible. We’re not just jumping on the bandwagon, we’re seeing it has longevity. Also, [it has] a great feature of accessibility!

[22:23] Allan: Jinko, what inspired you to join Women in Animation as Vice President?

Jinko: Women in Animation was launched in 2013. I was very excited to join! We were starting to see that more women were studying animation in schools. But we weren’t seeing that in the workforce. At least 65% of students studying animation were women, or identified themselves as women. The animation union Local 839 had 23% of women as a workforce. We realized that there was an opportunity to work toward gender equality. When I started in the industry, I was often the only woman in the room. And often not just a woman, but a woman of color and an immigrant. If there is no one that looks like you on screen, a lot of people don’t want to enter the industry. And it’s an industry that involves storytelling. It takes people from different backgrounds. Now seeing people like myself represented, I knew I was in a place of my career where I could help make that change. That’s the reason I joined Women in Animation. In 2014, we realized we needed to make it a platform. That’s where in 2015, we came up with 50/50 Gender Parity by 2025. Now we are talking about gender justice because we need to be far more inclusive than to talk just about the two gender binaries. We want to be inclusive with non-binary, transgender, people with disabilities, people of different color. We are in the process of rebranding ourselves. It’s about our being inclusive of our community.

[25:35] Allan: Absolutely! A question for all of you: What advice would you give to women starting out in your industry?

Kaitlyn: This is a good question! The one piece of advice I would give: I’m an immigrant as well. In the late 90s, the question of diversity wasn’t even brought up. When I was coming up, I didn’t see anyone who looked like me. I was looking at Star Wars and Back to the Future, and it opened my mind in terms of the limitlessness of VFX; but I didn’t see any women in the credits or in my research. I feared that a woman wouldn’t be allowed in this industry. The presence of women is so minuscule! Data wise, it’s an unsaid sexism in visual effects. As a girl starting out, I didn’t even know what that was until I saw the numbers weren’t really changing. I wasn’t sure if it was worth it to fight for my place in it. I love what I do and I’m grateful to have found something I can’t get enough of. When I was in college, my USC professor Eric Hanson said to me, “You just have to be so good, they can’t deny you.” And that is what I always worked for: How can I keep learning? 

[29:17] Allan: Is this the same Eric Hanson who worked at DNEG?

Kaitlyn: That’s the one!

[29:34] Allan: It’s difficult as it is to break into visual effects. And then realizing that there is a slanted bias, it makes it more difficult and can discourage people as well. What about you, Nell?

Nell: I think it would come down to two things. I’m going to reference this to my time in production in VFX. The one thing I’d say: 

  • [30:16] Your opinions are valid. Your job role is really valid. There is a common misconception that you are there to be an assistant. But you’re there to provide a very important part to the entire journey. Everything that you believe in – your interest and opinions – are 100% valid. The difference of thought is what makes you powerful. You need to keep leveraging that! It may not seem like that in the short term.
  • The second part is: Anyone who is trying to break into VFX from a different industry (like fashion or goods), it’s equally as valid. Fashion is seen as a female thing. And anything that’s tied to anything that women love is looked at negatively. You are part of the biggest consumer base in the world! I would say: Believe it in!

Kaitlyn: I have a great example in regards to that. I’ve always been fascinated by AI and how we can climb the VFX Everest of digi humans. I remember jumping on SIGGRAPH meetings. I remember one talk that talked about using the algorithm of capturing someone’s skin imperfections. I automatically thought they should speak to a makeup artist because they would know about that, from experience. When I typed that in the chat, no one had thought about it because I was the only woman in the room. It was an aha moment. The group was so homogenous. 

[34:44] Allan: That’s a really good point! 

Jinko: I want to echo what Kaitlyn and Nell were saying in terms of voice. It’s really valuable that we express our opinions. [I would advise] to create yourself a community, a network of like minds. And find allies to be part of that! Mentoring is very important as well. That’s what makes us successful. Make sure to find yourself a good mentor! As you move up in your career, your mentors will change and that’s okay. That is part of the process. I truly believe in reverse mentoring as well. It’s a life-long debt. You still want that community.

[36:46] Allan: While we’re on that subject, what advice would you give younger creatives? I’m 40 at this point, and it’s still critical to borrow from others’ experiences. What advice would you give for finding mentors?

Kaitlyn: Mentorship and building a community is a key aspect of any industry but especially in VFX where a lot of hiring happens through referrals. My view on mentorship is more holistic. I recently took some mentorship courses and we were evaluating how much time we were spending with our family and friends. I think it’s all about having the industry that you give out. It took a while to connect the dots, but I believe that the more you volunteer your time – the more you’re going to get back. A quick example of this: A lot of what I did in high school is imitate the career of John Knoll. When I was putting everything together for USC, my counselor asked if I had anything else. I told her I was volunteering at an animal sanctuary and that’s what set me apart. I believe in a two-way mentorship. If you’re finding a mentor / mentee pairing, both people will benefit. Go into your community without expecting anything back. That’s how I’ve been finding a lot of mentors (by volunteering for the VES Society, for example). That’s how I’ve been meeting like-minded people. I encourage you to not put the hours on the community.

[41:37] Allan: That’s a really great point about giving back and not having transactional relationships. It’s interesting that Jinko and you have touched on having a symbiotic relationship. Nell, what about your advice? 

Nell: I would say that my mentors have taken the shape of my friends, whether the friends I’ve met on a job. [42:55] It’s all about that ability to help another out. As women, we need to feel like we are helping each other, rather than trying to compete to be the only one in the room. It was an important thing for me. I’ve had moments where my opinion wasn’t validated, I’d say find someone in an organization higher up you feel safe talking to. (And I exclude HR from this.) Keeping those connections is going to be important! All your friends will go on to do amazing things. Maintaining your relationships is really important. 

Jinko: I was really fortunate. While I was in school, I was never afraid to ask. I would go to a professor teaching a course and ask them who else was doing this. And I called them up and that person became my first mentor. When I went to film school and was taking a producing course, the teacher was also Miloš Forman’s producer. I went to him and he became a great mentor. The value of mentors is so great! One of the things we did at Women in Animation was build a mentorship program. We felt it was important for the mentees to build a community outside their work. When the pandemic hit, it allowed for women to connect on a global level. This is so valuable because not only do you build a network, but it’s going to teach you that there are so many opportunities. I’ve heard from women students who are disillusioned to go into the industry. I tell them to build a community, to not drop out – because there are so many opportunities! And you need to feel like you are in a like-minded community. We aren’t seeing women and people of color, and people with disabilities coming into the industry. And the numbers aren’t changing. Guys do it: They go out to have drinks or play golf. And women need to do the same!

[49:30] Allan: I want to talk about the #MeToo movement. How much of a long-term impact do you see the movement having? Outside of education, what other actions can we put in place?

Kaitlyn: When the #MeToo started, it was shocking to see that if you’re a woman, you know someone who’s been sexually abused. The VFX or animation industry weren’t able to escape that. I admire so many women putting their money where their mouths are into the Time’s Up movement. We need loud allies! We need people standing behind us and asking, “This room is men heavy. What can we do about that?” Instead of leaving that question to the person who is already underrepresented in the room, we need our allies asking them – and to keep asking them. We rely on our allies, those who are in the industry and acknowledge their privilege.

Nell: When the #MeToo movement happened, I was working in a male heavy organization and it gave me a feeling of power. It felt like it was the first time it was allowed to talk about. The reaction of my male colleagues was so unsurprising but also so shocking! It felt very unserious to them for something that felt so serious to the women. It was a moment of change that felt so powerful and it gave me a voice. What I would love to see is this continuation of allyship. From that moment, it felt like dimming the light. People ask me, “How does it feel like now?” It doesn’t feel that different. It was this thing and it wasn’t picked up by the company I was working for. It’s so hard for people to verbalize assault, it can feel even impossible. There is a responsibility to ask the question; not relying on women to be the ones to carry the burden of upholding this battle. If there is a woman in the room, ask them for their opinion. So often it’s overlooked! 

[55:31] Allan: You’re so right! At first, it felt so overdue. But to downplay it, we don’t want it to just be a hashtag. 

Jinko: I couldn’t agree with Kaitlyn and Nell more. [56:11] What the #MeToo movement allowed us was to be outspoken and to start educating. What was exciting to us at Women in Animation was that it allowed us to have an open forum. We talked about sexual harrassment and how to deal with it. It allowed us to start elevating the issue. That’s a big change and we have to continue doing that. There are allies to this now. I had a woman of color who was being marginalized. I went to a male colleague and asked him to go to HR and talk about it. That made a huge impact! It’s important for us, leaders, to call it. Without it, we will never make change. We have an opportunity here now. This is part of how each organization needs to run. 

Kaitlyn: How exciting would it be for us to retire hashtags? That could be the next goal. #MeToo. #OscarsSoWhite. Let’s do our part not only in alliaship – but loud alliaship. If you have influence, you can make a change.

[59:12] Allan: It’s about it not being “a thing anymore”. When can we make this the least trending topic.

Jinko: Over the years, a man came to me and said, “By promoting Women in Animation, you’re taking work away from us.” And I said, “Do you have a daughter? What if she wanted to be in animation?” We’ve got to start thinking that there is so much work out there! We are no longer a cottage industry. 

Kaitlyn: So many of my colleagues with kids are vocal that they don’t want their kids working in VFX. Why not? Because of these issues that you have the power to fix.

[1:00:52] Allan: Finding a colleague who can bring something to HR to make an impact says a lot. It’s about the other parties taking ownership as well. 

Nell: In addition to Kaitlyn’s point about the more diverse a workforce is – the better the work is going to be! That is so important! If someone is going to say, “You’re taking work away from me” – God forbid! It’s important to have a workforce full of all kinds of people. The work will be better.

Kaitlyn: It’s going to be exciting to see the day when #WomeninVFX will become passe. 

[1:02:50] Allan: I love that! Have you seen any improvement over the last 10 years?

Kaitlyn: What’s bothering me at this time is lack of results, largely because of this topic of inclusion and equity. We’re just now getting to the surface and we’re moving too slow. If you’re just starting to talk about these topics, you’re 5 years behind. Like Nell said, we can now talk about it. But that was just it. It’s not leading to any changes. I have this one exec asking me to join him on diversity panels. But he is in charge of one of the largest streaming services; and he has never hired me to work. It’s more of a lip service. Action would be so much more powerful! I don’t want to be the only woman for the next 15 years.

[1:05:06] Allan: You’re so right! It’s not about talking about this, it’s about taking action.

Nell: The change I’ve seen over the past 10 years is one of understanding. It hasn’t stopped things from happening. I have been lucky enough to work with some male colleagues who can take action. I don’t have the answer to the whole problem yet. This is one of the reasons I wanted to do something of my own. One thing I’m keen to do is to have a thoughtful approach at my own organization. The action behind women in the workplace has to be more forceful. The greater responsibility is their workforce and the success they’ve achieved. I think there is still a huge amount of politeness. It’s about taking action and being loud about it.

Jinko: I’m going to put something positive here. With this USC report, we have to create some actionable items. So the Academy has agreed to put together a task force for animation which I’m co-charing. We are starting to reach out to larger vendors because they have deeper pockets. I won’t name names right now but a couple of larger vendors have programs to promote diversity. The shortage of labor is the perfect opportunity to bring in more solutions. It’s an opportunity that we can’t take action to! There are so many jobs in VFX! When you look at a major picture, it’s mostly VFX. VFX producers aren’t being acknowledged for that work, the same amount that live action supervisors do. That’s another thing we’re pushing at the Academy. We’re doing the best we can and I love conversations like this one. So I want to thank all of you for inviting me.

Nell: I forgot to mention the diverse brands my company started working with. That’s one of the positive changes that are starting to happen. 

[1:11:30] Allan: What can we all do to make this a permanent change?

Kaitlyn: I think one variety to add is repercussion. What kind of repercussions can we put in place? It’s done at the Academy, but VFX is the worst offender. If you don’t meet this percentage of equity and inclusion, you aren’t eligible to apply. This is the kind of loud stance we need to see. I also think it’s about highlighting the women who are already in the workforce. 1: We need to look for people different in the workforce and 2: to promote women from within. In what category of VFX have there been women whose work we haven’t acknowledged yet? Instead of saying, “We just don’t have enough women in the workforce.”

Nell: I think Kaitlyn summed it up perfectly. In addition to that would be to aggressively share information and resources, share what you know, share your experiences. We don’t want the gatekeepers of information. People are often afraid to ask. It’s about sharing your information.

Jinko: There are so many organizations now! Kaitlyn, I can’t wait to look up 1IN4! I think it’s these organizations – along with guilds and unions – that can make a difference. We need to be very vocal and these organizations can make that difference. We need to promote more people of color and women. Without leadership changing, we aren’t going to see it. One of the vendors I was talking to, they started a mentorship shadow program. They went out to their male colleagues and asked who should be promoted within the company to be mentored. These opportunities are what I’m committed to. We can all do this!

Kaitlyn: And on the way to mentorship, one form of bravery – is sharing of information. When I was starting out, I didn’t even know the rate people were getting paid. As I shared my salary information, I discovered that I was underpaid.

Jinko: It’s not just about diversifying the workforce – but we need to be equitably paid!

[1:18:30] Allan: What resources would you recommend for people to find, for communities or resources?

Kaitlyn: You can make the time to network within your community. You can find people who share your point of view and start sharing information. When learning about leadership, I learned about psychology. Our male colleagues are allies but they’re still operating on outdated mentality (women staying home to raise kids). It’s about doing therapy. If you’re a member of the VES Society, you can have a complimentary session. It’s something that women like myself are advocating for. I recommend reading about trauma that may be affecting your leadership styles. Pick up a subject matter and learn.

[1:21:06] Allan: Where can people go to find out about you as well?

Kaitlyn: I am on social @kaitlynyang and @alphastudios, across all social media. [On our website www.1in4coalition.org and our social media, we take steps to update their language, like removing the words “crazy” or “insane”.] So please check out our website!

[1:21:25] Allan: On or off line, where can people go to look for other resources?

Nell: I’m someone who struggles with online communities. In terms of resources, your peers may be worth having a conversation with. Everyone is going to have experiences that will aid you. In my personal experience, the process of building something that didn’t have validation before, I encourage every woman to do it. There is a book called Ninth Street Women by Mary Garbriel which talks about female impressionists. It was a story of will to break through those male-dominated circles. There is a Podcast called How to Fail by Elizabeth Day. It shares the stories from people from multiple facets of life who share their success – but they all had failure in common. 

[1:23:46] Allan: And where can people go to find out more about you?

Nell: Please look me up on LinkedIn. Please follow Xydrobe everywhere. 

[1:25:31] Allan: Jinko, I’d love to hear your thoughts about resources for communities as well.

Jinko: What both Nell and Kaitlyn are saying here is: Be curious! The internet is a great place to start. If you don’t have a clue, start there. There are so many organizations around the globe and start joining them. A lot of these places are doing things on Zoom. Start networking and creating your community. The information is out there and it’s accessible. I’m a big advocate of Women in Animation. We’re becoming more global. I don’t have a personal social presence. But please find me on LinkedIn. If you present yourself with something specific, I will respond. I tend to not respond to pitches. But if you can come to me with a specific need, I can be an advocate!

[1:26:38] Allan: Thank you all for your insight! It’s been great to gauge how far we have to go. 

Jinko: Thank you, Allan, for having us!

Nell: It’s been an absolute honor talking with you! 

Kaitlyn: A really lovely chat! Thank you for the platform!

 

What did you think? I hope you got a lot from this Episode. I want to thank Nell, Kaitlyn and Jinko for their time and participation.

Please take a second to share this Episode.

Next week, I’ll be doing a similar panel on Women in VFX. Until then – 

Rock on!

 

Click here to listen on iTunes!

Get on the VIP insiders list!

Upload The Productive Artist e-book.

Allan McKay’s Facebook Fanpage.

Allan McKay’s YouTube Channel.

Allan McKay’s Instagram.

 

 

Let's Connect

View my profile on

INSTAGRAM

wp_footer()