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Episode 329 — VFX Legend Richard Edlund — The History of STAR WARS
Richard Edlund is a four-time Academy Award visual effects winner for Star Wars: A New Hope, Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and Star Wars: Return of the Jedi. He is VFX Supervisor, Producer and Cinematographer. Richard was also nominated for Poltergeist, 2010, Ghostbusters, Poltergeist II: The Other Side, Die Hard and Alien 3. He’s won three Academy Technical Awards, the British Academy Award for Poltergeist and Return of the Jedi. He earned an Emmy for creating the visual effects for the original television miniseries Battlestar Galactica and another nomination for Mike Nichols’ Angels in America. The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences honored him with their John A. Bonner Medal of Commendation in recognition of his contributions to the Academy. And the ASC (American Society of Cinematographers) presented him with their esteemed Presidents Award in 2008. He has also received top accolades from the Visual Effects Society, Academy of Science Fiction, Fantasy & Horror Films, and numerous other organizations.
In 1975, Richard was one of the first visual effects artists to join fellow VFX enthusiast, John Dykstra for a startup he called Industrial Light and Magic (ILM). This team of filmmakers began their work on a movie called Star Wars. When the new technology and Star Wars franchise clicked, Richard moved to Marin County to supervise visual effects for the next two episodes of Star Wars, as well as Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark and Poltergeist.
In 1984, he took over the equipment amassed by Doug Trumbull’s Entertainment Effects Group and retooled the 65mm visual effects company, renaming it Boss Film Studios. Boss Films became a star in the visual effects world, when company simultaneously produced the comedic visual effects for Ghostbusters, created a hybrid technology integrating NASA’s digital images of Jupiter into a key sequence in 2010. Boss’s pioneering VFX technology went on to create stunning imagery for over 40 features, including Die Hard, Ghost, Poltergeist 2, Alien3, Species, Multiplicity, Air Force One. Masters of the Universe, Cliffhanger, Batman Returns, The Last Action Hero, Waterworld, Heat, Starship Troopers and a slew of other high profile projects, including pioneering Bud Light Superbowl spots. The company achieved ten Academy Award nominations over a fourteen-year period.
Richard is a twenty-two year Governor of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, founding member of the AMPAS visual effects branch and is chair of the Branch Executive Committee, also chairman of the Academy’s Science and Technology Council. He also serves as a board member of the VES and on the Board of Directors of the American Society of Cinematographers.
Richard is a frequent lecturer at industry organizations and universities across the world including USC and Chapman film schools. His 1977 Oscar for Star Wars is currently on display at the newly opened Academy Museum of Motion Pictures in Los Angeles.
In this Episode, legendary Oscar-winning VFX Supervisor, Producer and Cinematographer Richard Edlund talks about being one of the first artists to join ILM — to work on the 1977 film Star Wars — his work on Return of the Jedi and Ghostbusters, as well as gives some insight on being a pioneer in the visual effects industry.
Richard Edlund’s Website: https://www.richardedlund.com/about.html
Richard Edlund on IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0249430/
HIGHLIGHTS:
[02:48] Richard Edlund Talks About His Start as an Artist
[12:44] Richard Talks About Joining the Star Wars: A New Hope Team
[20:08] Star Wars Changing the Industry
[31:31] Richard Talks Indiana Jones and The Raiders of the Lost Ark
[49:14] Ghostbusters and the Start of Boss Film Studios
EPISODE 329 — VFX LEGEND RICHARD EDLUND — THE HISTORY OF STAR WARS
Hi, everyone!
This is Allan McKay. Welcome to Episode 329!
I’m sitting down with visual effects legend Richard Edlund, whose career spans multiple decades working on the original Star Wars trilogy, as well as Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark, Poltergeist, Die Hard, Alien 3, Ghostbusters, and so much more.
I’m really excited to be sitting down with Richard who is one of the legends in visual effects. We talk about his career spinning back all the way to the original Star Wars trilogy, as well as Indiana Jones and The Raiders of Lost Ark, Ghostbusters, Die Hard, Poltergeist and so many other classic films.
If you can take a second to share this Episode so others can benefit from it as well, that would mean the world to me!
Let’s dive in!
FIRST THINGS FIRST:
[01:10] Have you ever sent in your reel and wondered why you didn’t get the callback or what the reason was you didn’t get the job? Over the past 20 years of working for studios like ILM, Blur Studio, Ubisoft, I’ve built hundreds of teams and hired hundreds of artists — and reviewed thousands of reels! That’s why I decided to write The Ultimate Demo Reel Guide from the perspective of someone who actually does the hiring. You can get this book for free right now at www.allanmckay.com/myreel!
[53:38] One of the biggest problems we face as artists is figuring out how much we’re worth. I’ve put together a website. Check it out: www.VFXRates.com! This is a chance for you to put in your level of experience, your discipline, your location — and it will give you an accurate idea what you and everyone else in your discipline should be charging. Check it out: www.VFXRates.com!]
INTERVIEW WITH RICHARD EDLUND
[02:48] Allan: Richard, thanks so much for taking the time to chat. Do you want to quickly introduce yourself?
Richard: Okay. My name is Richard Edlund. I’m a VFX Supervisor, Cinematographer, Designer, Producer and Writer. I got my main voyage with Star Wars, which I was very fortunate to be there at the right time with the right chaps.
[03:18] Allan: It’s an honor to talk to you! Your credentials are amazing and you’ve definitely made such a massive impact on cinema over the years. Looking back to the beginning of your career, did you always imagine you would move into some kind of creative role growing up? How did you initially get started?
Richard: I got interested in photography in high school. I was actually photographing sporting events for the LA Examiner during high school and rubbing elbows with the press photographers in LA. And at that time, I kind of was thinking I might be interested in a career in photojournalism and had a scholarship at Pepperdine for journalism. But I decided that I would try to get some life experience before I went to college. And so I joined the Navy and ultimately wound up in Japan, at a photo lab.
It was the best! After photo school, I wound up with an assignment of two years in Japan, which changed my life. When I got there, there were about forty of us in the photo lab; and we had every kind of photographic equipment known to man. By that time, I was a pretty accomplished photographer, and I discovered a 16 mm Mitchell camera in the storage room that had never been opened up. Somebody ordered it and got shipped out before it came. So I opened this camera up and decided to get interested in movies. I found a fantastic bible called The Grammar of Film by Raymond Spottiswoode. It was the only book on movies that was at the base library. And it became my bible.
It was great because we didn’t have any sound equipment. And it was basically a treatise on how to tell stories with pictures and film. So that’s where I got interested in movies. And there was a full blood Cherokee Indian Master Sergeant. And he said, “Edlund, you don’t want to go to Brooks Institute. You want to go to USC because they have cinema.” And I said, “Well, that sounds very good!”
I basically send a letter to USC and ask for the information on the Cinema Department. I went to USC for 2 years: working in the morning, studying in the afternoon, going to school at night. I did 3 years in 2. I was ready for the senior year, and that would mean that I would have to quit my job. It was too much of a burden for my family. And I thought I was ready to get into the business anyway. So I basically pounded the doors of Hollywood, was told, “You’re not in the Union”, so I went to the Union. [They said,] “You have to work for 30 days before we let you in the Union.” And so I turned my resume into the Department of Employment and Joe Westheimer, who had a fantastic company which was an optical house, [gave me a job]. We did titles, inserts, opticals and special effects, mostly for television and some feature work.
So I was lucky! At $110 a week, I had a fantastic job in Hollywood all of a sudden. And at Westheimer, I got a chance to work with some notable cameramen. Ernest Haller was my favorite. He got an Oscar for Gone the Wind. Some of the great cinematographers used to come by there and shoot commercials and inserts for tv shows. And so I got a lot of firsthand knowledge because I was the crew. I was the grip, gaffer, assistant cameraman. I ran the film to the lab. I swept up. I wound up listening to Bob Dylan and Jimi Hendrix and The Stones. My hair started growing long. I did a little experimenting with marijuana, took a few acid trips and became a hippie.
[09:20] Allan: So I’m just curious, what was your first job? How did you get started?
Richard: My first job was to photograph my high school buddy’s group at the Princess Louise, which was a retired coastal schooner that had been dry docked and converted into a nightclub down in San Pedro. It was a compositional opportunity. I mean, everywhere you looked, there was a good composition to shoot photographs of this group. The pictures wound up on the desk of their agent, and the agent was sharing the office with the producer of The Fifth Dimension, and he picked up my proof sheets and said, “Who is this guy? I want him to shoot my group.” So my second job was to fly to Vegas and shoot an album cover of The Fifth Dimension. They were playing at Caesar’s Palace. I then became a rock ‘n’ roll photographer for about 2 years and left the movie business for a while. (Even though I was shooting early promo films at the time. They were the precursors to the video, and it was basically a song film. And I did The Ventures, Wayne Cochran. And these were the length of a song. It was a jump cut to my inventing the Pignose portable guitar amplifier. And so I got myself an electric guitar and started playing the blues and invented the amplifier, spent a year doing that.
And then I decided to get behind the camera again and got a job with Bob Abel who had a special effects company. It basically had a commercial company. They were doing experimental tv commercials. I started out shooting timelapse clouds for him. I spent about a year with Abel.
[12:44] Allan: How did you join the team for Star Wars?
Richard: One day, I got a call from John Dykstra to come out and talk about this sideline project Fox was going to do called Star Wars. Being in the commercial business, the minute you hear about a feature — you want to jump out of the commercials and do a feature! And so I basically went out and talked to John. And the thing is that I never met him before but we knew about each other because we were kind of brothers of the black cloth. In other words, we were the ones that did experimental photography. I went and talked to John, and while I was at Abel’s, I discovered this division process that had been last used on Ten Commandments. It’s like a double sized frame and I thought that would be a great idea to buy this printer, so we could start doing these fancy commercials and composite high resolution composite and distribution. But he didn’t want to spend the money, even though it was only $14,000 Howard A. Anderson Jr. wanted for this machine. He was going to throw a bunch of cameras and stuff like that in. It was a fantastic deal!
So we basically acquired that to do Star Wars. When I started on that project, I concurred with John in all respects, except he wanted to shoot front like backlight (which was kind of like a scene where you shoot the beauty past lid against the black background, and then you turn the white screen on behind it and shoot a silhouette). But I was reluctant to use that process because the map wouldn’t match the blur of the foreground. The whole idea of Star Wars — and the reason that it worked — was because the camera was on the nodal point, and the camera was moving and the model was moving while you’re shooting. So there would be natural motion blur when you had close flybys. And if that wasn’t there, it would chatter. In order to mimic a 35 mm camera, an operator with an area would shoot these scenes and make them look natural to the 10-year old, because the 10-year old was maybe our fiercest critic. Because if it didn’t work or it looked funny, he didn’t buy it. And so basically, young kids were aware of these artifacts of 24-frames-per-second photography. And so we built this fabulous system that took us about 9 months to do.
[16:40] Allan: So did you get a lot of support from the studio at the time?
Richard: The studio executives were extremely paranoid. They didn’t think that Star Wars was going to be a big deal. When they put out their catalog of next year’s movies, I think Star Wars was like number seven. And they had a shot of Luke Skywalker. So the studio didn’t have much conflict to start with. And on top of that, they didn’t know anything about any of us because we were all unknown guys that had come up through the commercial business and some kind of television special effects. And it took us about 9 months to build a system that we could use to shoot it. And so the studio was saying, “Where are the shots?” When we were building ILM up in Van Nuys in this warehouse, I walked into this huge room and there was nothing but a card table with a phone on it. And that’s where we started. I basically had to build the whole system up from scratch.
[18:24] Allan: So I’m just curious, what shots were you working on?
Richard: Nine months later, the first shot we did was the escape pod. And I shot that with a 35 mm high speed camera. And when it exploded out of the ship, we put a lot of Mylar flakes so that they caught the light. And because there was so much activity with these flakes, we didn’t have to have a starfield behind it. It was a pretty quick shot anyway, but that was the first shot. We did it, and that was not a composite.
So, we had 365 shots to do. And I worked on it for about 27 months or something like that, before it was released. And of course, the release date had been set, and that was concrete. You had to have it finished by then. On Star Wars, probably 75-80, maybe up to 90 people worked on the show over a 2-year period — and a budget of about $2.5 million for visual effects. 365 composites! We all give our best ideas to it. So it was trial by fire, and we were the firemen.
[20:08] Allan: I love that! And obviously, it made a massive impact on cinema in general. Looking at A New Hope, then Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, how did the productions change after the first film was so well received?
Richard: There were two or four tipping points in Star Wars that made it what it is, in George’s decisions. First one was Ralph McQuarrie doing the paintings. He art directed the entire series. The look of Star Wars was created by Ralph. He was responsible for George getting it made because the paintings were so excellent. The next one was choosing us to do the visual effects because at that time, there was no visual effects infrastructure that was significant enough to do that project.
Plus the idea of motion control and my insistence on using blue screen to shoot the models because of the blurred edges that I mentioned earlier. The one that I thought was extremely important was the casting of Obi-Wan Kenobi. Alec Guinness having that line, “Trust only in the Force.” What American actor was going to make that play? I thought maybe Brando, maybe. But when I heard that George cast Alec, I knew that the infrastructure was no longer a teenage movie. He gave it the gravitas that made it potentially the blockbuster that it was. I mean, there’s a lot of totally wonderful things that made Star Wars what it was. Ben Burtt’s sound effects made our shots come alive, because when you do visual effects work — it’s basically a silent project. You don’t have a soundtrack, and sound really brings the movie alive.
And so all of a sudden, I get a call to supervise visual effects for Empire Strikes Back. And that meant that I would lead my buddies at Apogee, and we all banded together to put that project together. I had to staff the studio and move all the equipment up to Marin County and then build other stuff. On this new project, it was no longer ships flying around with star fields in the background (which is actually a very easy composite to make). Empire Strikes Back, on the other hand, was now taking place on a snow planet with the snow escape and blue sky, and fluffy clouds, and snowspeeders flying around at high speed. And what I recognized immediately in reading the script was there could be no matte lines. Matte lines were the bugaboo of visual effects for a long time. And so that meant that we had to build some really sophisticated equipment. And I had basically taken the photographic process to its limits in order to produce composites where you could have ships flying back and forth: gray ships against a light background with all the motion blur. The first time you had a matte line was a giveaway that it was an effect shot. And so basically that couldn’t happen!
[26:02] Allan: How did you solve that?
Richard: We had to develop this optical printer. And my friend David Grafton, who had built one of the lenses for us on Star Wars, came in and designed the optical path for this printer, with the relay lens between the two projectors. There’s two projectors on a camera. One projector will have the map, the other projector will have the image. And then that image is then transferred to an anamorphic lens, onto 35 mm film. So we’re reducing this division, with double width format to 35 millimeter amorphous. And by using this large format, we avoided the dooby look of visual effects composites. That was the secret of using a large format distribution.
I guess I can get somewhat complicated technical in discussing this because we have people who are in the effects business. So we put in a processing machine so that we could develop the mats with soft edged, blurred mattes. And we had two processors, one for high contrast film and one for the separations and the mattes (because we had to make color separations, three color separations of each shot). I mean, it was extremely complicated. I hired Bruce Nicholson to run the optical department. He was an assistant on Galactica. He was a smart guy! He was the one that I always went to, to tackle the issues that we had come up with on Battlestar Galactica.
And Mark Vargo was another fantastic talent in the optical department. Conrad Buff was the editor, and he was the assistant editor on Galactica. I saw incredible talent there! He ran the editorial department at ILM for 4.5 years. And then he left ILM with me, when I left ILM after Jedi, to create Boss Film Studios. We did Ghostbusters in 2010. So Conrad was the editor, and he was with his boss for about 7-8 years or something like that. And then he wound up working with Jim Cameron, cutting Titanic and several other movies. I had really good fortune to be able to put together a fantastic crew!
[29:48] One of the things that you learn as a supervisor is whenever you’re in a position like that, you [need to] always hire people that are smarter than you are. We have all these different disciplines, everything from special effects, pyrotechnics, model building. All these incredibly talented people that come together and collaborate to make a project as complicated as Empire was! And Empire had no matte lines, and we did succeed in conquering that problem. And that optical printer that I talked about cost probably close to somewhere between $800K to a million to build. It was very expensive. But the thing is that since Star Wars was such a success, we now had the budget.
[31:31] Allan: With Raider of the Lost Ark, what were some of the big challenges on that film? Do you have any stories about your experience on that project?
Richard: Well, there were as many challenges as you could possibly imagine! The thing is that we would constantly paint ourselves into a corner and have to invent a way out of that corner again. This is a tribute to the team that I was able to put together and not only myself Dennis [Muren] was a very valuable guy. Dennis is a tremendous cameraman! Phil Tippett, Lorne Peterson, Steven [Spielberg]. We had an incredible team! Like I said, whenever a problem came up — we solved it as a collaborative team!
And I always felt that the coffee machine was like a center of intercourse between all the people. The discussions of what’s going on here and what’s going on there! And I felt that incredibly good coffee was important to the production. And when I moved up to San Francisco, I remembered when I was a hippie, I lived in the city for about a year. I remember there’s a little coffee place down in North Beach called Graffeo. They roasted and ground their own coffee, so I would order, like, 50 pounds of Graffeo coffee at a time. And there was never any decaf on any of my sets! We didn’t spare the adrenaline with the big ending sequence!
[33:52] Allan: I’m sure that was a huge technical challenge. Was that something in particular that you figured out in terms of how to tackle something as big as that?
Richard: Well, the other thing you got to remember is that on Empire, we didn’t have anything but 100 ASA film, and I didn’t believe in pushing. We didn’t want to push the film. Occasionally, I would do it in dire circumstances. I would push a half stop or something like that because of the need of doing high speed shots (like when the big walkers — which were like about maybe they’re at least 30 inches tall and they’re more than double the size — most of the walkers were stop-motion walkers which were approximately a foot high). Phil, John, Pete Kleinow and the group that Phil put together to do the stop motion and build all those models in conjunction with the model shop at that time by Lorne Peterson [made it] an incredible project! And all of these things were trepidatious ideas. We were always sticking our neck out maybe further than we should, and then we had to figure out how to make it all work. So most of the walker shots, with the walkers coming from afar and up close, were shot on sets. And we used these tiny little white micro balloons that worked as scale snow. They’re like a few thousandths of an inch in size. And of course, the floors got covered with them. And we would be sliding around almost like on a skating rink on these microbloons for months. And then we discovered Mike Pangrazio was a matte painter. Mike was a fantastic talent, and we stole him away from another company in LA. We needed a great matte painter, and we found him in Mike. Joe Johston: Let me talk about him for a bit! He was the art director, and he basically blocked out the scenes and did storyboards of all the shots. John hired him on Star Wars, and George loved Joe because he was so talented. He was second to Ralph McQuarrie on the show. We collaborated with Joe in terms of figuring out sequences and figuring out how to shoot them, and what was possible with the system.
But going back to Star Wars, when we finished putting the camera together, we had this boom camera on a 40-foot track. And then there was like a perpendicular model track at the end that we could move around, that was about 14 ft long. We had a 12-channel motion control system: pan, tilt, roll, broom, swing, track, move, traverse. Most shots had a minimum of about 7 or 8t axes running at a given time. I think I did 12 channels once or twice; but in any case, that was the bugaboo. And again, it was a 2-year project. I worked on an Empire. It was like again, 26-27 months to do that. The thing about Empire was we not only had to design all the shots and shoot them, but we had to composite them; but before all that, we had to build the equipment in order to be able to do it.
The thing is that George originally thought maybe we could shoot these models of guys on sticks, guys in black suits, running around with models on sticks. But of course, that was not possible to do. We were able to lean on Gary Kurtz, who was the producer of Star Wars and Empire, and he was a gear head. He understood that we had to build this system in order to be able to do this kind of work. It was so complicated! And it wasn’t like you were sitting at a monitor like you do now. But in those days, it was all done mechanically. Everything had to be made mechanically. We had to build models, build the contraption to support the model, to fly it around, to make it move. It was all brute force, in a sense.
[42:05] Allan: So do you have any inside stories from that set?
Richard: The story behind the Millenium Falcon goes back to Star Wars. George came by one day when they were building the Millennium Falcon. The original design was about 5 ft long and kind of slender and didn’t have any wings on it. It was kind of like an elaborate rocket. Actually, it became the Blockade Runner. George came by one day and said, “You know what? It looks too much like space 1999. Come up with something else.” And out of that came the circular ship with the asymmetrical cockpit and these big tines that stuck out in front. And this unforgettable Millennium Falcon ship is a fantastic design. Probably for the most part, it was by Joe Johnston and Grant McCune that put this together and came up with this iconic spaceship. It was about 3 ft in diameter and weighed about 100 pounds. Very heavy! The tie ships and the X wings were mounted on three quarter inch tubes. They were much lighter. In order to do the 365 shots that we had to do, it was important that the models be small and easily maneuverable because otherwise we would’ve never finished in time. On Close Encounters, the models were huge and the cameras were 65 mim cameras. And Doug’s approach to effects was completely different than ours, but both looked great. I mean, Close Encounters was the competition to Star Wars.
[44:49] Allan: Yeah, that’s amazing. Could you talk a little bit about your experience working on Return of the Jedi?
Richard: Jedi was a real grind. Jesus, it was done very quickly! I think we finished Jedi in 10 months or something like that. We had a complete system to operate from. By the time we did Jedi, I had done Raiders and I had done Poltergeist. So I had cut my teeth on two very difficult projects. Dennis had done E.T. and Dragonsplayer, so the team was broadly capable of doing things quickly. We had hundreds of people working on the show. And by the time we did Jedi, we had built a stone stage next door. So we had a complete stage that was 100 ft square and even had a pit below that. We could only go 6 ft down because of the water table. They wouldn’t allow us to build a deeper concrete pit under the stage. After I finished Jedi, which was a real grind. I had a Land Rover, and I had a big galvanized iron rack on top of it, and I wanted to get it repainted one day. And so I had to take this rack off the top. And it was like I was going to deliver it to the guys that are going to do the painting, at about six in the morning. So I was up very early in the morning. I had to take this rack off by myself, and it was about a 100 pounds. And when I lifted it up, I felt something awry in my back.
And I basically got the rack off the edge off the top and took the thing to have it painted. And about 2 days later, I had this terrific pain going down one side of my left leg. I had an MRI done and looked like I had crushed a disc. And so I had to have surgery to relieve this pressure on the sciatic nerve that was causing this pain. And I was in the hospital for about a week. Originally, I had been going down after Jedi. I heard about this project with Ridley Scott in town. I was flying down to LA on the weekends, designing shots with Ridley and then flying back. And I had this horrible pain in my life during all this. And so I aggravated that and I had to have surgery. So I wound up in a hospital in this upscale community next to San Rafael, in Marine County. They have their own hospital where George arranged for me to get taken into the hospital and get operated on.
[49:14] Allan: Do you have any quick short stories about Ghostbusters, whether there’s a particular sequence that stood out or something like a short story that you might want to share? Obviously, that’s another classic. That’s so amazing!
Richard: I got a call from Ivan Reitman who asked me to do Ghostbusters, and the project with Ridley had fallen out. And so I didn’t have a project at that point. And so all of a sudden I had Ghostbusters. And then the next day, Peter Hyams called me and said, “Do you want to do 2010 sequel to 2001?” The thing is that Ghostbusters would be delivering June 8, I think, was the release date. 2010 was [supposed to come out in], like, November. It was like right around Thanksgiving. So they were 6 months apart, and we had two different studios, Columbia and MGM. And because the projects didn’t compete with each other — because I had to rebuild the studio again — when I came down to look at it, I decided to take it over from trouble.
I had to again rebuild it all, put two studios together in bed together. And Jim Nelson, who was my godfather, helped me put this deal together. I had to get lawyers. It was my MBA course, and I had to be a businessman on top of doing VFX — and put this whole studio together. And I had about 350 employees pretty quickly, and we did Ghostbusters. And I had 3 stages going, going 100 ft track on one of them. And anyway, that was the birth of Boss Film Studios. I was an independent visual effects company for 15 years. It was a tough run because I didn’t have outside financing. Each project had to finance itself. I put together a team. The thing is, if one foot didn’t go down in front of another, I’d have to lay people off and I’d start losing the team. And once you lose the people, you’ve lost the company. It was trepidacious times at times, but I had good relationships with Columbia and MGM, and even at Paramount. And Fox, of course!
[53:06] Allan: Yeah, this has been amazing to hear some of the stories. And again, you’ve got such an amazing amount of experience working on so many iconic films. I want to thank you for taking the time to chat. This has been a true honor!
Richard: All right. Well, I appreciate the opportunity. And maybe we can do more later. Yes.
[53:25] Allan: If you’re ever interested and you have the time, then yeah, I’d love to follow up. So again, I appreciate the time I have. And yes, if you are interested, I’ll definitely follow up down the line.
Richard: Okay!
Thanks for listening! I hope you enjoyed this episode.
I want to thank Richard for coming on the Podcast. I’ll be doing another follow-up Episode with him to share his stories from all of his classic films. That will be coming up in the near future.
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