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Episode 204 — Lucas Ridley
Welcome to Episode 204! I’m interviewing Character Animator, VFX Supervisor — and an all-around Badass — Lucas Ridley! You might be familiar with his work: I put out the Venom training in late 2018 and Lucas animated all of it. Lately, he animated my Thanos training (www.MarvelCourse.com). I’m amazing the quality of work he’s been able to create.
Lucas has worked on so many great projects: Avengers: Infinity War, Ready Player One, Transformers: The Last Knight, Suicide Squad. He also runs a school at http://digitalcreatorschool.com/.
Let’s dive in!
FIRST THINGS FIRST:
[00:49] Have you ever sent in your reel and wondered why you didn’t get the callback or what the reason was you didn’t get the job? Over the past 20 years of working for studios like ILM, Blur Studio, Ubisoft, I’ve built hundreds of teams and hired hundreds of artists — and reviewed thousands of reels! That’s why I decided to write The Ultimate Demo Reel Guide from the perspective of someone who actually does the hiring. You can get this book for free right now at www.allanmckay.com/myreel!
[03:10] If you want to check out the Thanos training (which might still be available), go to www.MarvelCourse.com.
[1:24:00] One of the biggest problems we face as artists is figuring out how much we’re worth. I’ve put together a website. Check it out: www.VFXRates.com! This is a chance for you to put in your level of experience, your discipline, your location — and it will give you an accurate idea what you and everyone else in your discipline should be charging. Check it out: www.VFXRates.com!
INTERVIEW WITH LUCAS RIDLEY
Lucas Ridley is an Animator, a Director, a VFX Supervisor and the Creator and Teacher at Digital Creator School.
For the last decade, he’s worked on films like Avengers: Infinity War, Ready Player One, Transformers: The Last Knight, Suicide Squad and many others. He’s also directed short films, including for LEGO.
In this Podcast, Lucas and Allan talk about the importance of having a healthy mindset about your work, how to get into flow states to achieve higher productivity — and the importance of taking responsibility for your success!
Lucas Ridley’s Website and Blog: http://lucasridley.com/
Lucas Ridley on IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4994356/
Lucas Ridley on Art Station: https://www.artstation.com/digitalcreatorschool
Lucas Ridley on Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/lucasridley
Lucas Ridley’s Reel: https://vimeo.com/333393876
Online Courses with Lucas Ridley: http://digitalcreatorschool.com/
[05:07] Allan: Thanks for taking the time to chat! Do you want to quickly introduce yourself?
Lucas: Yeah! My name is Lucas Ridley. I’m an Animator mostly, in the past I’ve done some freelance directing for companies like LEGO. I did VFX Supervising on one series of commercials. So I’ve done a little bit of everything over the past 10 years of being in the industry.
[05:34] Allan: That’s awesome! Did you always want to be an artist growing up?
Lucas: You know, I was thinking about that this weekend. I think I was embarrassed to admit that I always wanted to be [an artist], growing up. When you decide to go on that path, you may not have the skills yet. I got a forestry degree in college. I got into animation by making YouTube hand gliding video (back when YouTube became a thing in 2006-2007). I won some YouTube contest with Hewlett Packard, Lipton Ice-Tea, Excedrin. I ended up making more money by doing these contests, so [I thought], “Maybe I should be going to school for this stuff”. I was teaching myself After Effects and Premiere, and everything else. Then I went to a one-year program. I didn’t want to do 4 years of debt again, after college.
[06:50] Allan: That’s awesome! I didn’t know that. What’s your opinion about going to 4-year programs. I think a lot of people forget about the time factor [because] they delay getting into the industry.
Lucas: There is definitely an opportunity cost! I could be earning 3 years worth of income. I couldn’t take on that much debt again. I was 26 by the time I went to film school. I compared it to online schools which were pretty new at the time. I was having a hard time learning online because it was pretty limited. I was trading one thing for another. I needed to go in person somewhere and take the plunge. It still wasn’t cheap, something like $50K for non-Canadian citizens to go to a film school in Vancouver. I put that on credit cards which was a huge motivation to hit the ground running. Luckily, I was able to pay that off in 2 years. It forced me to really work super hard, especially in school. I had to do well in school, so I worked my ass off.
[09:13] Allan: I think that’s really powerful. I was doing a Live Stream today talking about people who are getting into school at 20 years old versus people who are changing careers later on. A big advantage later on is that you’re more blase. You have to hit the ground running because you have more responsibilities. It’s the same thing if you’re investing that amount of money into a course. It’s a huge amount of money! You’re fully committed.
Lucas: There is no better option! That’s how it was for me: This has to work! You just find a way when you’re in that position. I was living in a garage that had been converted into an apartment. Above the garage, there was a balcony that was leaking water, so my ceiling fell in. The place to which [the landlords] moved me was another property that had skunks living under the floor. It was dismal! I was about to graduate, with no money, with $50K in debt. I remember going to my buddy’s apartment [and being in a really] bad spot. I had nowhere to live. I smelled like a skunk. I was sleeping in a sleeping bag… Dude, it was brutal! Leading into the first job, I took a really low paying job in San Francisco. I slept on the floor of a friend’s closet. It was just big enough to lay down in diagonally. I did that for 3 months. It was the only gig I could get.
[12:13] Allan: Were you sitting there going, “I finally arrived!”?
Lucas: The glory of working on a Hollywood project! But it was a stepping stone. A studio I wanted to work for was Psyop and the CG Sup Dave Chontos was taking a leave [from Psyop] to work on this little project. It was just me and him. I knew if he could just see how hard I worked, I would be get recommended. I worked hard [and it] ended up working. He asked me, “What are you doing after this job? Have you applied at Psyop?” I think Dave opened an LA studio. I wouldn’t be where I am without him. I think he’s at Apple now.
[13:45] Allan: I was talking to someone and asked him if he was at Apple too. Everyone went to Apple or Amazon. They’re everywhere, doing so much content!
Lucas: When companies like this that have so much money and they start making content, it’s good and bad news. It remains being seen how it goes.
[15:00] Allan: That’s cool that you strategically picked that job!
Lucas: I was trying to play it cool. I don’t know if I’ve ever even told him this! We were working on this so late. There were two of us making this 2-minute short film. I was doing all the animation. It was crazy! We had long hours and we were having dinners together. I didn’t want to force anything. When I ran in college, I was never about trash talking anybody. My feet spoke for themselves. So I just played it cool but it worked out.
[16:13] Allan: That’s great! You’re right! It’s so important to be on the offense. Some people will think their work will speak for itself. No one is psychic and you need to plant that seed. You need to be strategic and work really hard.
Lucas: The strategy was if that didn’t work, I would ask him. I wanted it to work before pitching myself. Because if they get to be the ones making that decision, it’s a stronger way than trying to convince them. It’s also a timing thing! Now working at studios, I’m all about being a team player. I take a couple for the team: For example, on Infinity War, I was given two shots and in a sequence of five. And I thought, “Ooh, if I could get these two done quick because they haven’t assigned the other three!” I’m not going to ask for things because I don’t like that when it happens to me when I work on projects. That worked out too: I got the two shots done and got the other three. It was that motivation to earn them by working my butt off.
[19:11] Allan: You’re absolutely right! I completely agree with that when people ask for things or they are being difficult. We’re in this together. I do think there are subtle ways you can say it without saying, “Give me this!”
Lucas: You can say it in a helpful way. You’re offering to do certain work.
[20:11] Allan: I was having this conversation with a producer in LA and I complimented a person we both knew mutually. He is not someone who will ever ask but make demands. And I said we could probably all learn a lot from this person. He gets all these opportunities because he is asking for these things. Maybe we need to learn from him.
Lucas: I think it’s a fair statement. For me, it’s been a learning process from being in these secluded sports like running or hand gliding, or forestry. It’s not like you’re negotiating high level things. Exposure to it was part of the process. I got stabbed in the back a coupe of times. We were supposed to work on this project with this one guy. He went in by himself and took all the shots. I got burnt a couple of times: Do people do this?! That’s super shitty.
[22:11] Allan: Do you still find that? I guess you’re working in games now so it’s a different thing. In general, do you find that at bigger studios, people are more professional?
Lucas: This was on one of my earlier jobs and that guy was younger. I don’t want to paint him as malicious. I never talked to him about it. He was right out of school so I’m trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. Since then, wherever I’ve worked, people have been super professional and super nice. I’ve never encountered that again to that degree. Having that experience early on opened my eyes though.
[23:26] Allan: At the start of my career, you take all the jobs you can and you’re less experienced at asking questions. I think in hindsight, you can see clear indicators to run away from. I did a Live Stream earlier today about age discrimination. People listen to this gossip, but there are biases out there. But it’s such a small percentage. The good thing is that it’s illegal. On top of that, those are the places where you don’t want to work anyway.
Lucas: As my career has progressed, I’ve worked with some of the best people in the business and everyone is so nice! It’s such a professional environment. All the non-great experiences happened early on. But as my career progressed and I’ve been able to work at some places that have been around for decades, it’s been night and day. I just get so confused when I’m talking to someone and hearing their complaints. It makes me want to flock to these other places.
[25:45] Allan: I worked at this studio 10 years ago. You’d go for lunch and the artists would be talking about other people’s salary. That’s when I realized I was sitting at the wrong table. There are legit places where everyone is just trying to get their work done.
Lucas: On a personal note: When I went to film school, I just had gone through a divorce. I was pretty young, I was 26! And that experience showed me that all I have control over — is my effort. So that’s been my attitude going into every environment. I don’t get into those discussions because I have no control over those. I have control over my work. On another note, I had cancer 6-7 years ago. So maybe some of my filters are down.
[27:28] Allan: I didn’t realize you went through that [until] I checked out your blog. I was talking to Carlos, our mutual friend, and he’d gone through cancer a few years ago. How has that experience been for you, and how did you survive that?
Lucas: It’s a huge range of experiences and emotions, as you evolve through it. You get to have new ideas about it. At the time when I had it, I had insurance with a studio — and that helped me so much! Working in this industry and at that studio saved my life. But at the same time, it gave me immediate perspective. I had been so focused on my own effort. Then you have cancer and you realize none of it matters. You’re brought down to this level of “I have a few months to live and how do I want to spend my time and mental energy?” None of these complaints matter. It gave me another perspective and helped me balance it all out. We’re making up these deadlines, and they’re important — but it will still get done. We’re making things to entertain people.
[30:15] Allan: How much did your life change from that? What kind of decisions did you make?
Lucas: I quit the industry! I decided to take a break and start a sensory deprivation tank center. I had a good experience with it. I had just finished chemo and I went in. For people who don’t know, you go and lay in 10 inches of water that has a thousand pounds of epsom salts. You just lay in it and meditate. You’re floating on this water that’s at your body temperature. There is no sound. I had a really great experience and I went deep into it. I went to conferences, in Portland, actually. I traveled all over the country for a while. But don’t go to a bank with this idea and expect to get funding! Having been in debt from school and then going into this idea, I had no collateral to put down. I got back to the animation industry and decided to make the money myself. [Since then], that idea has gone by the wayside. When I get into something, I go full on. I do stuff to the extreme. I still love animation and I’m still interested in forestry. My downfall is that I like too many different things. I lose focus sometimes.
[33:11] Allan: Do you still float sometimes?
Lucas: I haven’t in a while. I do other modalities: acupuncture, chiropractic centers. We probably know more about our cars than we do about human bodies. Going through cancer showed me that. Being in a hospital bed and not being able to get out of it, you’re just staring at the ceiling and you’re in pain. If your body doesn’t run, your mind doesn’t either. I’ve been trying other modalities, including floating as well. There isn’t a place close to me that I loved. People who don’t have the money to do it, the places are bad. The best place I’ve seen so far is in Pasadena.
[34:30] Allan: There is a few of those in Venice that I want to go to. Any of those should be on a legit side. I’ve done it once for an hour. I think I need to do shorter sessions.
Lucas: Most places won’t do shorter than an hour though. They operate on the REM cycle, so between 60 and 90 minutes. You’re going to be bouncing around for 15-20 minutes. Then you’re going to settle for 20 minutes, so you might have a good 20 minutes of actual mediation. But it may take a few first couple of sessions. It’s a mirror to yourself. If you’re bored, [it shows that] your mind isn’t at ease. The space is just a void to figure out what’s going on with your mind. I don’t promise people it’s going to be an amazing experience. It’s going to be exactly what you need at that time. I also tell people Arnold Schwarzenegger didn’t get ripped in one gym session. It’s a practice and it takes time.
[36:34] Allan: That stuff fascinates me. I talk a lot about ice baths and saunas. That’s why float tanks are something I want to explore. And then washing off the epsom salt isn’t that easy afterward.
Lucas: Some people wont’ even take a shower. There is a research lab that studied if you could absorb epsom salts trans-dermally. You need a fat to absorb something through your skin. Magnesium is hard to measure in your body. If it’s too low, you’re basically dead. Most magnesium is stored in your soft organs. It’s hard to do a study like that. So it remains to be seen. Most of these tank places have showers, but it’s expensive to build these places because of all the water damage.
[38:58] Allan: Sounds like you did your research! To jump around, you worked on a lot of projects. What’s your favorite one to date?
Lucas: I loved working at ILM! I loved anything there! I worked on Ready Player One, Transformers: The Last Knight, Avengers: Infinity War. And I just worked on Aladdin remotely which came out [recently]. I loved those projects! On Infinity War, I did key frame animation. I will say when you get it done, it was satisfying to do but in the moment it’s so hard! There were so many constraints. I had one shot on Welcome to Marwen and this character was laying on top of another. She put her hands on his chest while he’s laying down. Her chin was on her hands. It was mo-capped. You had to get the contacts right. That was the most challenging shot I ever worked on!
[40:48] Allan: I remember the first difficult shot they did there was Adam Sandler kissing Adam Sandler.
Lucas: Oh, yeah! I know enough to know that I don’t know. I find it so hard to be critical of any work! It’s so hard to do this stuff. I respect the effort it takes. Sometimes it’s hard to have an objective eye. You can just feel the overtime hours.
[41:58] Allan: People are so critical of CGI. A lot of the times, it’s due to some creative decisions. I remember on Superman Returns, one of the execs suggested that Superman loses his cape so he couldn’t fly anymore. That’s what you’re dealing with! And you’re just there fulfilling the director’s vision.
Lucas: We worked on this one commercial and it was with piñatas being animated. One of the piñatas was a unicorn. And the client wanted us to cut the horn off the unicorn, to turn it into a horse. It’s not the artist’s decision. Things change so quickly! When I see those things trending like “Bad CGI!”, it’s, ugh, internet stuff!
[43:29] Allan: I’ve been wanting to do a talk on YouTube about bad CGI claims. They don’t understand the reasons behind it! I know the history behind these films and the stuff they’re pointing out may not even be CGI. And then in ’95, there were editorial shops doing that work. Sometimes, it’s just bad creative decisions being made at a higher level.
Lucas: It’s a job — and I’m going to do my job as an employee.
[44:41] Allan: What do you think is the most challenging project you’ve worked on, in terms of animation.
Lucas: I’ve almost forgotten about this projects. Early on, I was working on something for Play Station. You can’t play this game anymore. We were animating a minute per week, and we were choosing the audio takes and had no storyboards. We had creative control, but it was also challenging to be thrown into this first staff job. It made me a quicker animator which is under valued in schools. The faster you can animate — and it’s hard to show that on a reel — the better! Quality is important. I just did a class on animation and I said that I relate it to hand gliding: Being able to animate fast is the most artistic endeavor because you have to make decisions quickly. In hand gliding, you have to make a decision quickly at 6,000 feet. You’re making these decisions at a fast rate with whatever choices are available to you. You have to make a decision — and go! You’re just going and going. It’s an emotional roller coaster. It’s stressful and then after the decision, you’re screaming with elation! I relate that to animating quickly. I lived in hand gliding for 3 years and that trained that decision making muscle.
[48:10] Allan: You have to make snap decisions but then to follow through quickly. That’s cool!
Lucas: Yup! Because you’re thinking how do I approach this shot? Pose to pose? Straight ahead? Are we sure this is going to happen? There was this shot on The Transformers. Michael Bay wanted to see something quick. I did it in 45 minutes and the Sup was like, “Thanks for doing this so quickly!” Most of the time, they’ve got their own stuff going on and they don’t have time to compliment you. Everyone is so stressed out! That was an example to get super focused and commit. It was a good decision because they cut that shot and went in a different direction. Which is good that we didn’t spend 3 days trying to make this shot that was going to be cut out anyway!
[49:49] Allan: That’s cool! Speaking of that, do you have methods to get into that flow state?
Lucas: Yeah, there is a few! Certain playlists I have, but I tend to get into that state after the music has stopped and I don’t know it. Start a playlist a couple of songs deep. Also, turning off any notifications of any kind if that’s possible: Do-Not-Disturb on your iPhone, etc. You just get sucked into it! I put my phone face down so I don’t see the screen. I commit to breaks and get super focused and then get a breather.
[51:37] Allan: There is the Pomodoro Method: You work for 45 minutes and take a 15-minute break. I am always curious about that. With animation, you have to have your head in it. You can’t be half in.
Lucas: There are all these quotes: “Animation is focus”. There is that story about Glen Keane getting yelled at for asking what music someone what listening to. “Music?! You have to focus!” Again going to my history, I had to focus for my running or hand gliding. There is this really good book The Rise of Superman: Decoding the Science of Ultimate Human Performance. That’s one of my favorite books ever! I think it mentions that you can get into flow states in these peak experiences like hand gliding. So I had a lot of practice getting into flow states. There are some crazy stories in that book!
[54:04] Allan: I remember being a teenager and working on 3D Studio DOS and being able to work for hours. I was able to work for extended periods of time, but then 3DS Max came out and I wasn’t able to do that. That’s when I thought about the color schemes and the color contrasts in DOS vs Max. I would start getting with grid values. The more I researched, the more I learned. Green and teal color can help focus.
Lucas: I find this stuff so fascinating! Because you don’t think this stuff would make a difference! You spend hours of time on your computer. So, that’s super interesting! What’s your opinion on blue light? I just bought these glasses to block out screen blue light.
[55:44] Allan: It’s kind of interesting. My wife Christina reaches for her phone when she wakes up. As much as I give her a hard time, I don’t follow the rule myself. I’m an advocate for getting the best quality of sleep even if it’s for shorter time. That’s the reason why I did ice baths as well. Why, what are your findings with that?
Lucas: I’ve always thought that it’s bullshit. We’re looking at light all day. I was at this spa in Santa Cruz and this guy, who used to be an animator, wanted to start a coffee shop because he was starting to go blind from staring at the blue light. That scared the crap out of me! So I bought these $50 glasses. I do experience headaches and get dizzy if I do too much screen time at night. I try to keep my screens at the lowest brightness.
[58:26] Allan: I don’t know how to do this anymore, but I used to change the window colors to dark blue. I found that was nice.
Lucas: For anyone working on VR project who may be listening, please don’t ever have a bright white transition. I’ve been playing a couple of games and it’s so bright and you can’t escape it. Why would you do that in VR? It blinds the viewer.
[59:18] Allan: Every morning, I blast myself with UV light. That’s the first thing I do every morning. I stretch my spine and set my lamp. You are telling your body to stop producing melatonin so you can come out of the sleep mode. One thing I was curious about when you talked about working faster. What do you consider to be the standard output of frames per day? Obviously, it comes down to some general stats.
Lucas: I don’t know if my answer will be satisfying. It depends [on so many factors]: Are there four characters in the scene or one? Is it a close-up shot? Is it a full body shot?
[1:00:26] Allan: How do you measure it right now? Some studios measure frames per day. You’re at Naughty Doc right now.
Lucas: For tv animation, they do request that. I haven’t work in tv animation, so I couldn’t tell you the standard. It’s a quality thing too. I can throw some numbers: There could be two characters in this game and we could do a minute a week, but one character was a worm while there other character had six arms. So you could crush how quickly you could deal with that shot! But then I worked at the same studio on an 8-minute film for two months. It was just me and another person. We were on 1 minute per week. There weren’t many character moves. In film work, I think we were working on 4 frame handles, maybe 8 frames. When you look at the 5-second footage on my reel, it was more like 10 seconds because of all the handles on the frame. I can’t remember! I think I have that Captain America footage on my reel. I think that took me from nothing to final in 3 weeks!
At Naughty Dog, where I am now, it’s mostly mo-cap. It’s a similar operation. Measuring that also depends: Are there notes from the director? Are they going to change the performance but not re-record the mo-cap? It’s hard to say. The way I measure it is by looking at the senior people. I’m always checking in based on what’s normal for them. We each get 4 shots. I can still measure if I’m still going quick. I try to keep realistic expectations for myself. I think if you’re new at a studio, the tv animation is where you’re going to be asked a specific number of frames. I’ve never been asked to get a certain amount done. On projects you know what’s expected. You have to get done what needs to get done.
[1:05:37] Allan: We talked about your experience working in different cities and countries. For you, when you approach a studio in Canada, what’s your way to do that if you have to relocate?
Lucas: Luckily, I’m usually clear on whether they’re expecting non-citizens. Recruiters put it in their listings. I always double check. If they don’t specify, then I assume they’re open to non-citizens. That’s an issue that gets brought up much further down the road if you’re a good fit. They have people who do that stuff for them. You’ll interface with a separate company to deal with the visa stuff. In my limited experience, I’ve worked in Canada as an American citizen.
[1:07:34] Allan: What’s your opinion on working in film and games? How do they differ from each other?
Lucas: Games are incredibly more complicated. Even as someone who isn’t a gamer, I understand how they work. But working on one, it’s non-stop. You have to think, “What if the player went over here?” I talked to my friend about it when we went to get tacos from a stand. What if the player went into the kitchen, we’d have to animate the cook. In film, most of the stuff is done and it’s pretty straight forward: You have to go from A to B. In games, you have to go from A to B, from A to C, from A to D… There are so many more branches! It depends on different companies. They may have different teams that divide the responsibilities; whereas in film, you’re just an animator. For me, I wouldn’t say I have a preference. It’s all animation to me! But they’re all very different.
[1:09:52] Allan: You’ve launched your own online training. What’s your experience been like with that?
Lucas: It’s going pretty good. I’m a year into it. Part of it was due to financial reasons; but some of it goes back to the cancer. I have all that knowledge, I don’t want all of it to die with me. I want to share it with someone and help someone. It’s not that I think I’m super smart. The reason I like teaching is that you have to know your stuff so well that you’re able to teach it to someone else. It forces me to learn deeper. The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don’t know. I don’t know a lot! That motivates me to learn even more — and to motivate people! I don’t mean to brag that I have a lot to share. But I’ve had some experiences and the whole point that I can share those experiences. It’s been super rewarding. Every once in a while, there is some internet troll person. You focus on the negative because it’s so memorable.
[1:12:22] Allan: I had someone on my Instagram say something negative. I recently saw that everyone else on my feed turned on that person. It was kind of rewarding to see my community do the dirty work for me.
Lucas: I try to keep in mind that some of these people are 12 years old and they have no idea. Surely, someone who’s 30 years old doesn’t act that way. Part of the reason I started this is to have control over with whom I interact. On some sites, you cannot share links. Or you have people trolling you. I don’t get where this is coming from. Part of being a teacher is to draw boundaries on where to stop teaching. You do some teaching on soft skills — and it’s so great! But when someone is so aggressive, they might not hear your teaching.
[1:15:07] Allan: Sometimes, other people can learn from their behavior. Sometimes, I reply for everyone else: This is a really good example on what this person is doing and not taking responsibility. Everyone else gets to learn the lesson.
Lucas: Toward the end of one of my interactions, I told the guy to get a refund. Please go away! I try to frame it that way: Sorry there is a miscommunication, but the way you’re using language isn’t beneficial for your end goal. If the person doesn’t recognize, there is a bigger problem.
[1:17:10] Allan: You’re also dealing with so many different personalities!
Lucas: But then there are some guys who are so appreciative and you can hear their passion. I know where they’ve been and I know how much they want this. Those are the guys I try to focus on! I have so little time and I don’t want to waste it on arguing.
[1:17:59] Allan: The rule of thumb with trolls is they’re always going to have more time than you! My time is finite so if you start an argument, they have nothing better to do. I talked to Ryan Connolly at Film Riot about this (www.allanmckay.com/133). He has half a million of followers. His response to any comment is, “Sorry you feel that way!” He stays open minded. I find that fascinating. He wants to give them lessons and still thank them for their comments.
Lucas: One thing about teaching is why I went into film school as well. There is the same moral to the story about why I started teaching. My godfather is friends with Bill Pope, the DP on The Matrix, Spider Man. (His mother actually lives in my home town.) Before I went to film school, I wanted to talk to him. It didn’t happen but it made me realize to take responsibility for myself. I decided to go and make things happen for myself. The same thing happened with teaching: I went to a school and offered to teach, but they never responded. So I started making my own classes. And it’s going well. It took getting rejected. Those were the initial catalysts. Even in terms of recommendations: We can’t get the job for our students. They have to do the work themselves. So I decided not to wait and do it for myself. It’s been super rewarding!
[1:22:34] Allan: Thanks for taking the time to chat! I love interviewing friends because I get to learn. Where can people go to find out more about you?
Lucas: The school is located at: http://digitalcreatorschool.com/. It’s the same name on Instagram.
[1:23:02] Allan: That’s so cool! Thanks for doing this!
Lucas: Thanks for having me on, Allan!
I hope you enjoyed this Episode. I want to thank Lucas for taking the time to chat.
– If you want to check out that Lucas and I put out, go to www.MarvelCourse.com.
– The next Episode will be about working from home.
Until next week —
Rock on!
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